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bob1029 2 hours ago [-]
> Presence of oil is critical here as it creates conditions for hydrodynamic lubrication.
You can hear this effect in some vehicles at initial startup time for a few seconds. I know of certain Ford engines where it actually causes issues over time. The model years with auto start/stop have the worst of the cam rattle disease.
LeifCarrotson 33 minutes ago [-]
Auto start/stop isn't off for enough time for the oil to drain from the galleries and especially not out of the bearing journals.
It's the first few seconds after an engine has been off for hours (or worse, for potentially years) that are the problem.
Toutouxc 1 hours ago [-]
Note that that sentence is talking about the crankshaft bearings and their hydrodynamic lubrication, which is, well, elsewhere and separate from any cam rattle issues (including the cam phaser oil starvation that you might be referring to).
culopatin 1 hours ago [-]
Lifters also often drain while sitting and valve lash is greater at start until they get slapped a few times
londons_explore 48 minutes ago [-]
Worth noting the design of the internal combustion engine hasn't changed much in 50 years.
The thing that has changed is the control systems.
What used to be a primitive mechanical way of mixing fuel and air (the carburettor), is now an electronic fuel injection system, with the fuel air ratio very carefully matched to reduce pollution (fun fact: modern cars release so little carbon monoxide, you won't kill yourself by starting one in a garage (but don't try it just incase your car is faulty)). Catalytic converters use any tiny fuel air imbalance to reduce carbon monoxide and soot, and on the other side nitrous oxides, by slightly increasing and decreasing fuel air ratios.
CraigJPerry 2 hours ago [-]
The thing that's missing here that really drastically changes the story is all the emissions control hardware that would exist on such an engine.
This is a circa 1990s engine in the US market i think? Dual Overhead Cam didn't really become popular in the US market until then i think. 70s-80s for single overhead cam to become established.
The diagrams are beautiful and informative as always from this author.
fauria 2 hours ago [-]
"in real running engines the rotating crankshaft should float completely on a very thin surface of oil" - I found this to be a great insight.
arlattimore 2 hours ago [-]
The bearing surfaces in an engine (ex: crankshaft main bearings) have very tight tolerances, usually in the 15-25 thousandths of an inch. The engines oil pump fills those tiny gaps with pressurized oil which allow the metal surfaces to spin thousands of times per minute without damage.
This is also why if you have any issue with oil pressure (ex: oil pump failure, cracked oil line) or oil starvation (ex: driving a regular car on a race track, cornering forces slosh oil away from the oil pickup in the sump) issues, you'll damage your engine nearly immediately.
9 minutes ago [-]
LeifCarrotson 22 minutes ago [-]
It's 0.0015, that's 1.5 to 2.5 thousandths, or 15-25 "tenths" as they're called.
That's not a particularly tiny gap in the machinist world, it's large so that you can pump viscous oil in it and deal with a wide variety of temperature changes.
25 thousandths would be sloppy, a nominal clearance hole for a 1/4x20 bolt is about that much.
arlattimore 8 minutes ago [-]
Good catch, sorry should have corrected that. While not small for a machinist, I think by the average persons definition that is a pretty small gap for the oil to occupy ;-)
WalterBright 1 hours ago [-]
That's the point of all uses of oil, other than rust prevention.
calmbonsai 59 minutes ago [-]
Some engines are also substantially cooled by oil, but those are either older designs (think “air-cooled” Porche) or industrial prime-movers.
xenadu02 12 minutes ago [-]
Most piston aircraft engines are still air-cooled which really means air and oil cooled. The oil is a big part of getting heat out of various parts of the engine.
That also makes them harder on oil as the piston/rings have larger tolerances so they don't expand and bind up during operation. That means greater blow-by at startup and when operating at lower temps which puts a lot more combustion byproducts into the oil. Ultimately you want to run an aircraft engine in the upper part of its range (65% power) continuously and don't let it get too cold.
This is also true because 100LL still contains lead and at lower temps the lead combustion byproducts precipitate out of solution, coating everything in metallic lead, lead oxides, and various other lead compounds all of which are really bad for engines. Converting to unleaded nearly doubled engine life in autos.
Many modern engines have valve rotators and hydraulic lifters. Oil pressure is fed to a lifter that sits between the valves and the cam and automatically takes up for any variation in the system, ensuring valves operate correctly. If you ever wondered why car engines don't need to have their valves adjusted every 20k miles anymore - that's why. In some engines if these leak down after shutdown it can cause trouble starting because the valve timing will be off until oil pressure re-fills the lifter.
Rotators are little spring mechanisms that compress and when uncompressing try to rotate the valve in one direction. This causes the valves to rotate a tiny bit with each cycle. Often there are hot spots and exhaust valves especially often have no good way to shed heat yet are exposed to extremely high temps - so they shed heat when they close and are in contact with the head. If they don't rotate the slightly hotter spots will continuously build up heat eventually destroying the valve. The rotator keeps that from happening. (Some engines use sodium filled valves to help transport heat away from the valve face).
I always found it surprising how tiny variations in wear or even a few degrees of excess heat can end up destroying an engine.
WalterBright 29 minutes ago [-]
You are quite right, the oil also serves to transport the heat away.
felooboolooomba 3 hours ago [-]
Pro tip: Show a message if WebGL is disabled instead of a blank space.
MarkusWandel 2 hours ago [-]
Wonderful but it irritates me that so many descriptions of internal combustion engines refer to "explosions" of the fuel. You don't want that. It causes knocking and pinging and engine damage. You want a controlled burn that generates heat smoothly.
Toutouxc 1 hours ago [-]
Not exactly. You do want a deflagration and not a detonation, but "explosion" is more loosely defined and, depending on who you're talking to, a self-sustaining subsonic flame front and a sharp pressure spike are a perfectly valid explosion.
stouset 1 hours ago [-]
You don’t want detonation, but you do want deflagration.
relaxing 1 hours ago [-]
Very interesting technology. Would be exciting to see a hardware startup build a product around this.
If you like this kind of stuff go and look up videos on the Rolls Royce Crecy engine from WWII. Absolutely insane engineering that died due the dawn of jet propulsion.
mrhottakes 3 hours ago [-]
Excellent animations.
misiek08 2 hours ago [-]
You meant - awful knocking combustion in the first, main animation?
I never catches any real bug is those great posts, but this one, especially as first animation on the page - weird.
Toutouxc 2 hours ago [-]
You might be misreading the animation. It's a direct injection engine, the thing that happens during the compression stroke is fuel injection. Ignition happens a few degrees before TDC, which is realistic.
1 hours ago [-]
lostlogin 1 hours ago [-]
One of the rare situations where someone wants a bit of retard?
You can hear this effect in some vehicles at initial startup time for a few seconds. I know of certain Ford engines where it actually causes issues over time. The model years with auto start/stop have the worst of the cam rattle disease.
It's the first few seconds after an engine has been off for hours (or worse, for potentially years) that are the problem.
The thing that has changed is the control systems.
What used to be a primitive mechanical way of mixing fuel and air (the carburettor), is now an electronic fuel injection system, with the fuel air ratio very carefully matched to reduce pollution (fun fact: modern cars release so little carbon monoxide, you won't kill yourself by starting one in a garage (but don't try it just incase your car is faulty)). Catalytic converters use any tiny fuel air imbalance to reduce carbon monoxide and soot, and on the other side nitrous oxides, by slightly increasing and decreasing fuel air ratios.
This is a circa 1990s engine in the US market i think? Dual Overhead Cam didn't really become popular in the US market until then i think. 70s-80s for single overhead cam to become established.
The diagrams are beautiful and informative as always from this author.
This is also why if you have any issue with oil pressure (ex: oil pump failure, cracked oil line) or oil starvation (ex: driving a regular car on a race track, cornering forces slosh oil away from the oil pickup in the sump) issues, you'll damage your engine nearly immediately.
That's not a particularly tiny gap in the machinist world, it's large so that you can pump viscous oil in it and deal with a wide variety of temperature changes.
25 thousandths would be sloppy, a nominal clearance hole for a 1/4x20 bolt is about that much.
That also makes them harder on oil as the piston/rings have larger tolerances so they don't expand and bind up during operation. That means greater blow-by at startup and when operating at lower temps which puts a lot more combustion byproducts into the oil. Ultimately you want to run an aircraft engine in the upper part of its range (65% power) continuously and don't let it get too cold.
This is also true because 100LL still contains lead and at lower temps the lead combustion byproducts precipitate out of solution, coating everything in metallic lead, lead oxides, and various other lead compounds all of which are really bad for engines. Converting to unleaded nearly doubled engine life in autos.
Many modern engines have valve rotators and hydraulic lifters. Oil pressure is fed to a lifter that sits between the valves and the cam and automatically takes up for any variation in the system, ensuring valves operate correctly. If you ever wondered why car engines don't need to have their valves adjusted every 20k miles anymore - that's why. In some engines if these leak down after shutdown it can cause trouble starting because the valve timing will be off until oil pressure re-fills the lifter.
Rotators are little spring mechanisms that compress and when uncompressing try to rotate the valve in one direction. This causes the valves to rotate a tiny bit with each cycle. Often there are hot spots and exhaust valves especially often have no good way to shed heat yet are exposed to extremely high temps - so they shed heat when they close and are in contact with the head. If they don't rotate the slightly hotter spots will continuously build up heat eventually destroying the valve. The rotator keeps that from happening. (Some engines use sodium filled valves to help transport heat away from the valve face).
I always found it surprising how tiny variations in wear or even a few degrees of excess heat can end up destroying an engine.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26991300